크리스천만 —- 당신은 어느 편이세요.

  • #104967
    믿음 75.***.109.87 1090

    자신이 크리스천이라고 생각하는 사람만 읽어보시고 댓글 달아주세요.
    아래는 조엘 오스틴 설교동영상에 달린 두사람의 논쟁을 컷/페이스트해서 올린겁니다.
    (쏘스:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIRSYBMeW-0   )

    이 설교 자체는 아주 훌륭하고, 아주 중요한 설교입니다. 그러나 조엘 오스틴이 많은 비판을 받기도 하지요. 왜그럴까요? 번영신학이라서 그럴까요?
    당신의 아래 두사람중 어느 쪽에 가까우세요?


    • Robert William



      1 day ago
      My point is that the New Testament does not teach your best
      life now, it teaches the opposite, unless one is living an ungodly life,
      please notice it does not say maybe..

      2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecut 





    • I understand where your coming from I really do, there is a
      sense of pride and selfrigheousness in being a martyr for christ. Its a
      way to explain the hardships of life without having to look at our own
      conduct. But really its an insult to God and his word to live a life
      defeated and full of misery believing its just our lot in life as
      christians to be persecuted and mistreated.


    • tbone martinez


      1 day ago

      Really tell me why you think that? God did not make us JUST
      to suffer, he made us so that we might have a life that pleases him.
      Part of pleasing him is having faith that he will meet our needs. what a
      horrible way to live, always on your own, not being able to ask God for
      help, believeing that God doesnt want good things for us, believing in a
      cold hearted fire and brim stone God, yeah i know how it is. For to
      long i believed like you, but my life has changed once i realized how
      blind iwas







    • LOL he was given the ultimate table before his enemies when
      he died he went to be with the lord! What makes me exempt from being
      persecuted? nopthing at all, i get persecuted all the time, mostly by
      other so called christians. What do you think your doing?

    •  





      Make up your mind, either your best life is now or future, if your best life is now it cannot also be future.

    •  





      What happened to Isaiah’s table before his enemies while he
      was put in a tree trunk and sawed in half?? What makes you exempt?? Open
      your eyes, there are thousands of Christians being tortured now in
      2013.

    •  





      In the next life? in the next life i will be in heaven what are you talking about?

    •  





      WhEEEEEEEEEhEEEEL then, hopefully in the next life the
      frequency will intensify a thousand times for you, so that you may
      intensly enjoy being beaten ove and over again, and you will just laugh,
      right. LOL :)

    •  





      True, but that is in the midst of persecution and does not
      guarantee that your life will be spared. If you consider being shot or
      cut in half and or hated by the world to be you’re best life now then
      fine, I do not.

    •  





      So i am guesing you get shot and cut in half all the time
      then huh? The world might hate you but thats not what i focus on , i
      focus on Gods goodness and his promises in my life, sure everyone goes
      through persecution but i keep my peace throughout it and i know God
      will vindicate me, for he says,”i will prepare for you a table in the
      presence of you enemies”


    •  





      True, but getting cut in half is not your best life now. 



    •  





      LOL in the natural i could see why you would think that, but
      thats very rare and besides dying and going to be with the Lord is the
      Greatest victory! This is our best life now!, if you choose to believe
      that your supposed to be miserable and unsuccessful then thats whats
      gonna happen.

    •  





      Do you think Jesus His disciples and Prophets were miserable
      while they were slaughtered, whipped, burned at the stake, thrown to
      lions etc, it’s NOT our best life now, that’s a lie, those who will
      godly in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution, if you’re not turning
      the world upside- down your living an ungodly life. It is happening now
      and will happen again, the Lord Lord religious types will, and do think
      they are doing God a service by persecuting and killing born again
      Christians.

    •  





      Do i think they were miserable? no actually i dont think they
      were, i think they were so filled with the spirit that they were at
      peace knowing that when they die they will be with the lord. Misery is a
      choice, we all suffer however we as christians are supposed to suffere
      FOR christ. Not that any worse things will happen to us or in higher
      frequency but rather we glorify God in everything especially suffering.
      That was there best life!

    •  





      Luke 6:38
      – Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and
      shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For
      with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you
      again.

      Philippians 4:19 - But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

      Its not prosperity Gospel, its the true Gospel. There is more to life then being a martyr

    •  





      I really don’t understand why anyone would want to think we
      serve a God who doesn’t desire to give us favor in life. Joel is a true
      prophet and a man of God. The only reason people don’t like him is
      because they life the idea of being a martyr


    Philippians 4:19 – But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

    Luke 6:38
    – Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down,
    and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom.
    For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to
    you again.

    It is our best life now! God is our provider

    • 1 75.***.109.87

      조엘 오스틴의 설교를 들어본건 처음인데,
      설교가 좀 깊이가 아주 얕은거 같다는건, 한두개 설교동영상 보니까 사실 금방 느껴지네요.
      그러나 주제는 상당히 살아가면서 중요한 주제들을 다루는거 같습니다. 다만, 주제가 성경의 말씀을 더 기반으로 하면, 생각보다 더 깊이있고 비중있게 전달될수도 있을텐데, 그렇지 못하는 아쉬움들이 느껴지긴하네요.

      조엘 오스틴의 설교는, 믿음에 주리고 목이 마른 사람에게는 별로 도움이 안될거 같은 주관적 생각이드는군요. 이건 조용기목사의 번영신학에 비하면 번영신학에 끼워주지도 못하겠네요.
      사실은, 최근에 조용기 목사 젊으셨을때 영어 설교들을 처음 들어봤는데(우리말 설교는 제대로 들어본적이 없음), 정말 파워풀 하더군요. 번영신학이라 이름이라도 붙을정도면 조용기목사 설교정도는 해야 할듯. 조용기목사에 대해 이러저러한 말이 많지만, 순복음교회의 폭발적인 성장은 역시 사람의 힘으로서가 아니라 성령님의 역사이심을 부정할 수 없겠더군요. (저 순복음교회 다닌적 없어요.)

    • 말씀 76.***.80.92

      원글에 나온 두 사람의 의견을 좀 잘 편집해 주셨으면 좋았을 텐데요.

      번영 신학이라는 것이 있었군요. 간단히 말하면 인간이 잘 사는 것을 목적으로 하는 신앙인가 보네요. 그리고 조엘 오스틴의 그 범주에 들어간다는 말씀이시죠?

      그런데 제가 잘못 이해한지 모르겠지만 원글의 나온 두 사람 tbone과 Robert 중에서 tbone은 Joel을 참 선지자요 하나님의 아들이라고 높이 평가하고 있고 정작 Robert가 편안한 삶을 추구하는 즉 번영 신학 쪽 입장 아닌가요?

      조엘이 번영 신학군에 포함되는 근거는 그가 쓴 책 ‘긍정의 힘’ 같이 예수님을 앞세우지 않고 주로 ‘나’의 성장을 강조해서 그런가 보죠? 기독교에서 ‘나’의 성장에 대하여 이렇게 적대적인지는 미처 몰랐네요.

      예수님도 요한 복음에 너희도 내가 한일보다 더 큰일을 할 수 있다고 말씀하시지 않았습니까? 하나님의 뜻을 내가 이루기 위해서는 내가 더 거룩해지고 내가 더 위대해져야 합니다. 말은 하나님의 뜻을 이루는 것이지만 결론적으로는 내가 하나님 같아지는 것이 핵심이지요.

      예수님은 부자가 천국가는 것은 낙타가 바늘을 통과하는 것보다 어렵다고 하셨습니다. 그 이유는 우리가 부자가 되면 그렇게 쌓아올린 부를 잃지는 않을까 하는 공포심, 더 많은 부를 축척하고 싶은 욕구… 이런 것들이 하나님의 소리(성령)를 무시하거나 거역할 가능성이 높기 때문이지요.

      즉 이 세상의 부, 명예가 절대 구원의 증거나 신앙의 목적이 될 수 없죠. 그런면에서 tbone에 한표~